Is There a Parallel Between Zechariah 14 and Revelation?

Don Preston created the first two columns of this table in which he presumes Zech 14 is the AD 70 destruction of Jerusalem.  He then picks verses from all over Revelation, no matter the context,  in an attempt to show  that all of Revelation matches Zech 14.  He thinks this shows Revelation is just an extremely figurative account of the AD 70 destruction of Jerusalem. 
Zechariah 14                                   Revelation James’ Comments
Destruction of Jerusalem (1 f)           Fall of city where the Lord was crucified (11:8) Zech 14 is not the AD 70 destruction of Jerusalem, but the capture of Jerusalem at the end of the world.  Zech 14 and Rev 11 are parallel prophecies, but they speak of  the capture of Jerusalem at the end of the world when God splits the Mount of Olives in half, and God did not do that in AD 70.
———————————————————————-
Escape possible (5)                          Come out of her lest partake of plagues (18:4) Escape was not possible at the DOJ.  Fugitives were crucified.  Those remaining at its fall were led captive, the city was burned and then leveled.  The captives did not escape after an earthquake at the DOJ.
 
———————————————————————-
Coming of the Lord (5)                     Coming of the Lord (14, 19) Yes, these are parallel passages of the Second Coming, not the first.  I am glad you agree that the coming in Rev 14 is the same as the one in Rev 19, but this coming is when Christ destroys ALL NATIONS, not the Jews at the DOJ (Rev 19:19-21)
Time of light (6-7)                             No need of sun (21:23) ———————————————————————-
The Hebrew in Zech 14:6 is very difficult, and the translators have redered it in widely different ways.  

“It shall come to pass in that day That there will be no light; The lights will diminish.” (NKJV)

On that day the sources of light will no longer shine, (NLT)

On that day there will be no light, no cold or frost. (NIV)

And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the light shall not be clear, [nor] dark:
  (KJV)
 
Zech 14 describes the coming of Jehovah and the end of the age.
  The Sibyls say that when the age ends that the earth will be shrouded in dust, and the sky will be left without a single star (Book III:710).  IMO, Zechariah 14 is the Sibyls’ twilight at the end of the world  (Book III:993-1001), and the KJV’s idea that the light on that day is diffuse and dim is probably right.
 
The majority of the translations view this text as happening in a time of semi-darkness and not eternal day as Rev 21:25 describes.
  Besides if this event is supposed to be the DOJ, how in the world do you get eternal day out of the destruction of Jerusalem? 
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Lord shall be king (9)                       God on the throne (22:3) These two passages do refer to the same time, but both of them refer to the condition that follows the day of the Lord when Jehovah shall have taken unto Him His great power and reigns over all the earth (Zech 14:9).  Jehovah did not do that at the DOJ.
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No more curse (11)                           No more curse (22:3-4) To apply these passages to the destruction of Jerusalem is willful ignorance.  The curses include death, pain in childbirth, weeds, nettles, thorns, mute animals, and vicious wild beasts.  All of these curses are still in effect.  These verses cannot possibly refer to the DOJ.
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River of life flows from Jerusalem (8)   River of life flows from Jerusalem (22:1f) Tina says, “Zechariah 14:1-8 says the river of life would be opened as a result of Jesus’ coming against JERUSALEM. Therefore, Babylon HAS to be Jerusalem!”

Zech 14 makes no reference whatever to Babylon.
  There is no relationship between Zech 14 and Rev 18 or any other Babylon verse.  There is no chain of logic to link between Zech 14 and Babylon, so there can be no “therefore”. 

———————————————————————-
Nations come to Jerusalem (16f)         Nations come to Jerusalem (21:26f) Rev 21 shows New Jerusalem coming down from heaven.  Did this happen at the DOJ?  Rev 21 describes a city 1500 miles on a side in which only the kings of the earth may enter.  Was this true at the DOJ?  Both Zech 14:16 and Rev 21:26ff describe a situation that has not ever happened.  This cannot possibly refer to the DOJ.
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Our Fearless Leader and the Day of Jacob’s Trouble

The social aspect of Obama’s wrecking crew is what worries me the most. By the time Obama is done, homosexuals will be the accepted ones and Christians will be persecuted. To oppose them in any way will be hate speech whereas their death threats and actual violence will be excused. I am also thinking Obama is likely to stand quietly by while Iran and the Arabs attack Israel. Israel will be severely injured, but her enemies will be destroyed. I wonder what will happen in this country when Obama stands idly by and lets Israel take it on the chin from the bullies that surround her. Israel will be abandoned by men, but not by God. Here is the scenario.

[Israel’s enemies want to destroy her]
Psalms 83:2 For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head.
3 They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones.
4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.

[God is petitioned to personally intervene for Israel]
Psalms 83:11 Make their nobles like Oreb and Zeeb And all their princes like Zebah and Zalmunna,
12 Who said, “Let us possess for ourselves The pastures of God.”
13 ¶O my God, make them like the whirling dust, Like chaff before the wind.
14 Like fire that burns the forest And like a flame that sets the mountains on fire,
15 So pursue them with Your tempest And terrify them with Your storm.
16 Fill their faces with dishonor, That they may seek Your name, O LORD.
17 Let them be ashamed and dismayed forever, And let them be humiliated and perish,

[Here is the prediction of what will happen to these invaders. Notice the specific predition that these invaders will be confounded even as the prayer requested in Ps 83:13, i.e. they will be chased like chaff and the whirling dust]
Isa 17:11 13 The nations rumble on like the rumbling of many waters, But He will rebuke them and they will flee far away, And be chased like chaff in the mountains before the wind, Or like whirling dust before a gale.
14 At evening time, behold, there is terror! Before morning they are no more. Such will be the portion of those who plunder us And the lot of those who pillage us.

A very intersting point to me is the prophecy that when Israel is surrounded by enemies and without a helper and these enemies attack to take away God’s people (Ps 83:4), God will fight for them (Ps 83:15, Isa 17:11-13). The Psalmist asks (obviously with God’s permission to put the request into the psalm) for God to pursue the enemies with His storm and His tempest. It sounds to me like that though Israel will be forsaken by men that God will intervene with some visible stormy manifestation, even as He did in the days of Joshua (Josh 10:11). When this thing with the Day of Jacob’s trouble is over, God will have unmistakeably shown Himself to be the Savior of Israel. Israel will be severely injured (Isa 17:6-9), but her enemies will be destroyed (Jer 30:8), and she will live in peace until the time of the end (Jer 30:10, Rev 11:3-7, Ez 38:8, 11-12, 14).

I know a lot of people believe that Ezek 38 will come into play shortly after the time of Jacob’s trouble. I do not believe that is the case, however. I believe Ezek 38 to be the Battle of Armageddon at the end of the world. To determine the context of Ezek 38, we need to look at the complete account of the Gog/Magog invasion, and that account covers all of Ezek 38-39. There are several things that make this lengthy passage highly unlikely to be describing a scene before the end of the world.

Consider Ezekiel’s description of the invasion as being one of men mounted on horses (Ez 38:15). That does not correspond to a modern invasion by Russia with tanks and planes.

Ezekiel also promises that Israel will know that the Lord is their God from that day forward (Ezek 39:22). Whenever the Gog/Magog event takes place, Israel will uniformly thereafter serve God, but such a thing would not happen before the establishment of universal righteousness upon the earth, and that does not happen until the end of the world (Isa 11:1-9, Hab 2:14).

Another verse that shows the end times context is Ezek 39:25. God will restore the fortunes of Jacob and have mercy on the whole house of Israel (Ezek 39:25). At this point in our modern time, only some from Judah and Manasseh have returned to Israel, but the text promises that when God destroys Gog, He will gather Israel from all the nations. He will not leave ANY of them in these lands any more (Ez 39:28). There are currently Jews living all over the world, and probably will be until the end of the age. Having remnants of Israel scattered all over the world does not fit Ezekiel’s prophecy. The Bible describes the reunion of the 12 tribes in Hosea 1:11. Hosea recounts a reunion of Judah and the children of Israel at a time when they appoint a common leader. After this historic reunion of the 12 tribes and the selection of a common leader, instead of uniting to build up Israel and living happily ever after in the land, they incredibly immediately leave the land! The most plausible explanation for this incredible action is that the Antichrist is invading and these reunited tribes retreat to Bozrah where scripture foresees the beginning of their eternal victory at Jesus’ return (Micah 2:12-13, Zech 12:7, Isa 34:6, 63:1, Jer 49:22).

I want to notice several characteristics of Ez 38-39 and compare them to passages in Revelation to show that the context of Ez 38 is the end of the world. The comparable passages in Revelation are clearly linked to the very end of the world, because Jesus comes, defeats His enemies and casts them into Gehenna hell (the lake of fire–Rev 19:20, 20:10). Since Ez 38 and the Rev passages are parallel, then Ez 38 is also the end of the world.

To understand my arguments regarding the Battle of Armageddon passages in Rev (Rev 16:13-16, Rev 19:17-21 and 20:8-9), I need to explain my analysis of Rev 8-22. My view of Rev 8-22 is that this large section of Revelation deals with Christ’s power over the course of history that He obtained when He opened the 7th seal (Rev 8:1). These chapters 8-22 are a prophetic description of God’s plan between Pentecost and the Second Coming for the three major groups of people on earth: Israel, the nations/Gentiles, and Christians. The prophetic plan for the course of the history of Israel is in Rev 8-14. The prophetic plan for the history of the nations is in Rev 15-19, and the prophetic plan for Christians is in Rev 20-22. Each of these major sections has a coming of Christ to the Battle of Armageddon. Hence you have several accounts of the Battle of Armageddon (Rev 16:13-16, Rev 19:17-21 and 20:8-9) and the events in preparation for it (e.g. Rev 9:13-19, 11:7-13).

Now lets look at the Gog/Magog invasion in Ezek 38 and compare the characteristics of the Ezekiel invasion with the Battle of Armageddon that happens at the coming of the Lord. We notice that Ezekiel’s invasion happens in the last days (Ez 38:16). It comes from the north (Ez 38:15). There will be so many of the invaders they will be like a cloud covering the earth (Ez 38:9). During their invasion there will a severe world-wide earthquake (Ez 38:19-20). God comes and fights for His people (Ez 38:18-19, 21-22). The invaders will fall and God will call the animals and birds to eat them (Ez 39:17-18). God will set His glory among the nations and ALL the nations will see the judgment that God has executed (Ez 39:21). God’s servants will thereafter always know that the Lord is God (Ez 39:22). These descriptions of Gog’s invasion include the same details as found in Revelation regarding the invasion of the Antichrist/Beast/Man-of-Sin. There are parallel accounts of this last invasion in Rev 16:13-16, Rev 19:17-21 and 20:8-9. The Gog/Magog invasion happens right at the end of the world (the Beast captures Jersusalem in Rev 11:9-12, but it is just before and at the Second Coming and the resurrection of the dead). In these accounts we find that the invaders first gather at Armageddon (Rev 16:16) in the north of Israel and ride from there south to Jerusalem (Rev 11:7-8, Joel 2:9, Zech 14:2). The heavens and earth will quake before them (Rev 16:18, Joel 2:10). Christ and His armies return and fight for their people (Rev 19:13-14). Jesus and His armies kill the hordes of the Devil and the birds eat the slain (Rev 19:21). After God’s victory at the last battle (Rev 20:8-9), He brings New Jerusalem down from heaven and sets His glory in the midst of the nations (Rev 21:10-11). Thereafter the servants of God will KNOW that the Lord is God, because they can see His house and see His face (Rev 22:4). The descriptions of the last battle as described in Revelation match the characteristics of Ez 38-39, but the events in Revelation are obviously the end of the world (Rev 19:20-21, 20:8-10) because of the resurrection and final judgment.

The day of Jacob’s trouble is a highly significant event in God’s plan. The plight of Israel being surrounded by the nations and having no one to help but God is a type of the end of the world when the remnant of the forces of righteousness will be shut up at Bozrah (Micah 2:12) where they will be surrounded by the forces of the Devil. God will fight for Israel on the day of Jacob’s trouble, and His deliverance will be spectacular. It will be clear to all that it was God that delivered Israel from their trouble. No man was able to help them, but God will gloriously deliver them. God’s deliverance on the day of Jacob’s trouble will be a type of the end of the world as when Jesus comes to deliver His people from the army of the Devil (Rev 19:19-20, 20:8-10, Jer 48:40, 49:22). After the day of Jacob’s trouble, Israel lives in peace and prosperity until the very end of the world (Ezek 38:11-12). That is a type of the peace and prosperity that God will bring to His people forever when He sets up the new heavens and the new earth (Mi 4:4-5, Isa 65:17-19, II Pet 3:13).

The Bible has quite a bit to say about the day of Jacob’s trouble, but I don’t know what happens to the USA under Obama. If you believe George Washington’s prophecy (http://www.civil-liberties.com/pages/prophesy.html), there will be a remnant of us left when Jesus comes. If you believe the USA is the 7th head of the beast (Rev 13:1), then we recognize that the 7 headed nation beast is under the control of the Devil (Rev 13:2). That would mean the USA goes over to the dark side. That’s the way it looks to me at the moment, which is bad news for Christians. The power to tax is the power to destroy.

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The Cycle of the Time and the Emergence of the 7th World Empire

Martin Armstrong has released an article in which he expands upon his theory of cycles. He believes the cycle-time of the public ascendency has now given way to a time of the private ascendency. He sees a time of stuggle and chaos as the governments strive to maintain their power.

Armstrong does not believe there is any conspiracy, but if the public gives rise to the private, by necessity there is a conspiracy to overcome the power of the states. They will not give it up of their own volition. The history he presents from the 1300s till the present is rife with conspiracies of all sorts, yet he denies there is one today. Either Martin is a co-conspirator fallen into disfavor, or he is as blinded by the web of deceit of the elites as those he seeks to enlighten. His denial of a conspiracy does not make any sense.

I believe in cycles. The Bible says, “To every thing there is a season” (Ecc 1:3-8), and then describes various cycles. In another place Ezekiel shows that God operates with wheels within wheels (Ezk 1:16-21), that is, He uses cycles of various sorts and lengths. So, cycles are to be expected in a world He created, and Armstrong’s presentation of the 309.6 year cycle that alternates between public and private dominating forces makes sense from the aspect of the way things work.

IMO, what we are seeing is the emergence of a 7th world empire. Armstrong says it will be private rather than public. How does that work? In the times when the private dominated, the power was focused in private enterprise rather than the kings. During the Middle Ages it was the barons and their baronies that were the centers of power. Central government was rather weak. During the great period of exploration in the time of private ascendency from 1400-1600 there were great companies that arose and wielded great power throughout this era. During the last 300 years we have seen the rise of great nation-states and they have now consolidated power to the point that they threaten the very economies on which they depend.

The empire that is emerging is one controlled by private corporations rather than the state, and that fits well with Armstrong’s cycle . An important point that I think he missed is that the rise of the private force does not equate to personal liberty and good for the people. The corporate tyrant can be as ruthless as any monarch, and the fact that these corporations are the beneficiaries of the cycle of history does nothing to lessen the malevolent motivation behind them. The corporations may well return to sound economic policies, but they seek to have the freedom for themselves with the people as their serfs. The good of the people is not their agenda.

This is not to say that capitalism is evil; it is not. Capitalism is the freedom of individuals to make their own choices and to live with the consequences. Each individual making the choices in accordance with law results in the most efficient utilization of resources and the best results for society as a whole. It is the unlawful abuse of capitalism that is evil, and this evil destroys the personal freedom of the individual and his ability to choose economically and thereby damages society as a whole.

I say there is a conspiracy, or the time of government ascendency would not end, but the private power that arises will not be to the benefit of the people. My hope is that the US of A by virture of its residual faith will escape some of the ravages of this hostle private force that is being unleashed against the world.

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Goodness Can Prevail in Individuals

Good will ultimately triumph in the world to come. However, in this present
world, good will only triumph in individuals. A few years before Christ
returns, evil will completely overwhelm the world (Rev 13:7, 15, Dan 7:25,
II Thes 2:11, Rev 20:8-9). Christ will destroy evil for ever when He
returns to exercise His dominion over the earth (I Cor 15:25-26, Lk 19:27,
Rev 19:19-21, 21:3-4).

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Will Goodness Prevail before the End of the World?

A correspondant wrote:
Perhaps I have too much faith in the Hope of humanity. I guess I believe that Goodness will prevail over Evil. I do believe there are good people all over the world. I think that goodness cannot be enslaved forever. I do believe in Justice. Perhaps the good people of the World may surprise us.

James replies:
People from the beginning of the world have been pretty good as long as they were left alone. The problem is that there is an evil power that was not willing to let them alone. That power is still working today. It is working harm on men to bring about the last of 7 world empires, as has been advertised. This power subverts or attempts to subvert every good institution of man.

IMO, these 7 world empires were designed to show that no form of government will work in a world where man is left to himself. You know; it is not in man who walks to direct his own steps. When it becomes obvious that all attempts of man to govern himself in whatever form bring disaster, then God will step in and provide good government forever, but that will not happen until all forms of self-government have been shown to be abject failures. The abject failure of all forms of government of the present age will serve as a lasting object lesson for all future generations to show that government from man alone is runaway locomotive on a mountain railway. God will fix it, but not until it descends into a bloodbath of total oppression and moral destitution.

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Will Goodness Prevail Before the End of the World

A correspondant wrote:
Perhaps I have too much faith in the Hope of humanity. I guess I believe that Goodness will prevail over Evil. I do believe there are good people all over the world. I think that goodness cannot be enslaved forever. I do believe in Justice. Perhaps the good people of the World may surprise us.

James replies:
People from the beginning of the world have been pretty good as long as they were left alone. The problem is that there is an evil power that was not willing to let them alone. That power is still working today. It is working harm on men to bring about the last of 7 world empires, as has been advertised. This power subverts or attempts to subvert every good institution of man.

IMO, the seven world empires that will exist on earth before the end of time were designed to show that no form of government will work in a world where man is left to himself. You know; it is not in man who walks to direct his own steps. When it becomes obvious that all attempts of man to govern himself in whatever form bring disaster, then God will step in and provide good government forever, but that will not happen until all forms of self-government have been shown to be abject failures. The abject failure of all forms of government of the present age will serve as a lasting object lesson for all future generations to show that government from man alone is runaway locomotive on a mountain railway. God will fix it, but not until it descends into a bloodbath of total oppression and moral destitution.

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Who Are the Sons of the Most High in Ps 82?

Who are the sons of the Most High in Psalms 82:6?

The notation in verse 1 that this is a Psalm of Asaph puts the reader on notice that Asaph is speaking.
      Asaph notices that God stands to judge in the midst of the gods (v1).

So, Asaph wonders, If God is the judge, what gives with the mess we see? Why does He not just go ahead and judge?
Asaph says,
      How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.(v2)

Asaph says this is what God needs to do:
      Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.(v3)
      Deliver the poor and needy: rid [them] out of the hand of the wicked.(v4)

The consequences of God’s inaction are that the people on earth:
      They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: (v5)

And the consequence of men walking in darkness without understanding is:
      all the foundations of the earth are out of course. (v6)
      [even the fundamental things are messed up down here]

Now the speaker shifts from Asaph to God in v6. Every version I consulted sees some change in the Hebrew regarding the person speaking in verse 6. The translators either mark this change in the text by quotes (NIV) or by a paragraph mark (KJV).

Since only God could actually do what this text says, I infer that “the Father” is the antecedent of “I” in “I have said”. Therefore, God responds to Asaph’s complaint:
      I have said, Ye [are] gods; and all of you [are] children of the most High. (v6)
      [this is God’s verdict, and it will be the ultimate result, because God “said”, and His word cannot
      return unto Him void (Isa 55:11)]

In the meantime, however, before the ultimate manifestation of the sons of God (I Jn 3:2 ASV) there are interim events that will transpire:
      But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. (v7)
      [Even though God has already decreed that those who heard and believed His words are His sons
      (Jn 10:35), they still will have to die, just like the men who are merely part of the nations will do.]

Finally, the punch line of the whole chapter:
      Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations. (v8)

This verse is interesting. “God” is “elohiym”, the same word that is translated “God” in v1 and “gods” in v6. It is the translator’s choice whether “elohiym” here in v8 should be “God” or “gods”. A couple of considerations can guide us as to which one we should choose.

1) Inheritance is characteristic of God’s sons, not of God Himself (Col 1:12, 3:24, Heb 6:16, I Pet 1:4, Ac 20:32, etc.)
2) There is no indication that the context has switched back to Asaph, and therefore, v8’s command to “arise” and “judge” is simply a continuation of God’s “I have said” in v6.

Based on these two considerations, I interpret v8 as follows:
      Arise, O [sons of the Most High], judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

God will use the very people who are among those walking in darkness and knowing not, to judge the earth and therefore to fix the problems that stem from lack of judgment on the earth, and the sons of the Most High will be ones that inherit the nations among whom they fell, just like the princes of the nations do.

This verse is so neat. God uses the results that come out of His apparent indifference to what is going on to fix the problem. The sons that come out of the chaos in the place where “all the foundations are out of course” will be the very ones that will fix the problems and inherit the whole world in restitution for the injustices heaped upon them.

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The Harlot of Revelation 17

Alexander Hislop has written a book called “Two Bablyons”
that has become a classic. It shows the extremely similar worship of the
Catholic and heathen religions. Catholicism has embraced every
major feature of heathenism and repackaged it under the guise
of Christianity, including the worship of images. Since
idolatry is spiritual adultery, then the church that is supposed to be
married to Christ but gives her affections to others is fittingly
represented by a drunken harlot.

In Rev 17:18 John spoke of the city “that reigneth over the kings of the
earth”. John’s description served to identify what city he was talking
about. He did not claim that the church ruled the world in his day. In
John’s day, Rome was the enemy of Christianity, but was already a harlot in
the sense that Rome was overrun with idolatry and the Gentiles had long
since departed from serving God to worship idols (Rom 1:21). However, the
government that ruled in John’s day was eventually overcome by Christianity
and Christianity then ruled the world. After the church came to power in
the fourth century, it very rapidly departed from the faith and early on
adopted many of the pagan practices. Because Christianity became so closely
linked with the Roman government that in later days it became known as the
Holy Roman Empire, Rome then became synonymous with both the secular and
ecclesiastical seats of power. The church ruled from Rome over the
governments of men for 1000 years. Rome to this day is the seat of power
for the Roman Catholic Church. Now the Roman church has great power over
the kings of the earth, even our own government. Since Rome continues in
its worship of idolatry, it is still a harlot, and apparently will continue
to be so until she is destroyed by the Man of Sin at the end of the world.

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Were Elijah and Enoch Raptured to Heaven?

John Bray wrote an article entitled, “Were Enoch and Elijah Raptured to Heaven” (http://www.purelybiblical.com/ftp/E/Elijah_and_Enoch.pdf) where he questions the truthfulness of Enoch’s account that the prophet Enoch was kept alive when he was translated.  Bray objects to Enoch based on John 3:13’s requirement that at the time of Christ no man had ever bodily ascended up to heaven.

There are some things that John Bray apparently does not know about heaven and those things affect the results of reasoning about Enoch and Elijah. If he had ever read the the non-canonical works like the Ascension of Isaiah and the book of Enoch, he would understand that some of the things he says are wrong. For one thing, the Ascension of Isaiah says there are seven heavens (Asc Isa 3:13), and God rules in the highest, the 7th. Enoch says he went to be with the Watchers, which is the lowest heaven. So, Jn 3:13 is not violated by Enoch being caught up to the lowest heaven. Another thing is that the Bible tells us that Enoch and Elijah will be killed during the reign of the Antichrist. They will be killed in Jerusalem (Rev 11:8), and they will be resurrected there (Rev 11:11). If Enoch was killed when “he was not, for God took him” (Gen 5:24), then he dies again in Rev 11:8, and that is double jepordy. God promised that it is appoint unto men ONCE to die, and after that the Judgment. The book of Enoch clearly shows Enoch alive and well in the realm of the Watchers after he was taken (Enoch 12:1-5), even as the Bible says (Heb 11:5). My presumption is that the three ancient men that have never died (Enoch, Elijah and John) went to the same place. There they receive food and care that will keep them alive until the end times when they will all return. There is no reason to presume they are dead when the Bible does not say that they are. Mal 4 says God will send Elijah before the great and dreadful day of the Lord, the day of Christ’s return (II Thes 1:7-9). I believe him, and I believe Enoch when he says they will return.

Enoch 90:51-53
51 And again I saw those sheep that they again erred and went many ways [in the days of King Ahab], and forsook that their house, and the Lord of the sheep called some from amongst the sheep and sent them to the sheep [prophets], 52 but the sheep began to slay them. And one of them was saved and was not slain [Elijah], and it sped away and cried aloud over the sheep; and they sought to slay it, but the Lord of the sheep saved it from 53 the sheep, and brought it up to me [Enoch], and caused it to dwell there.

Enoch 90:31-32
And thereafter those three [archangels] who were clothed in white and had seized me by my hand who had taken me up before, and the hand of that ram [Enoch and Elijah!! the two witnesses and two candlesticks Rev 11:3] also seizing hold of me, they 32 took me up and set me down in the midst of those sheep before the judgment took place.

Enoch 90:38-39
and the first among them became a lamb [Jesus Rev 5:6], and that lamb became a great animal and had great black horns on its head [Jesus comes as conqueror of the earth Rev 19:16]; and the Lord of the sheep 39 rejoiced over it and over all the oxen [the Jews have finally accepted their Messiah]. And I slept in their midst: [Enoch is to be killed Rev 11:7] and I awoke and saw everything.

Critics raise at least two objections to the above position. They claim that Hebrews says ALL of the folks mentioned in Hebrews 11:13 died. That would include Enoch. Critics claim it also is not vaild to use God’s pronouncement of man only being apointed to die ONCE (Heb 9:27) as an argument to show that because Rev 11:7 says he will die in Jerusalem at the end of the age, then Enoch must still be alive. There are several resurrections recorded in the Bible and the presumption is that these all died again. The widow of Nain’s son died twice. Jairus’s daughter died twice. Eutychus died twice. We can’t prove they all died again but we certainly don’t read about their being taken alive, and it seems we would.

In answer to the objections we note that Hebrews says “these” all died in faith. “These” who? The ones that Hebrews talked about that died. All these that died, died in faith. Enoch is specifically excluded (“By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death”–Heb 11:5 NIV). Also, the non-canonical works agree with the inspired writer of Hebrews and say Enoch is not dead, and Revelation implies he is one of the two witnesses coming back at the end of the age.

Those people mentioned that were raised from the dead had all been dead less than one week. The non-canonical works say that a departed soul is left free for one week following his death in order that he might know what is going on. Jesus called this transition condition “sleep” (LK 8:53–she is not dead, but sleepeth; Jn 11:11–Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep). Apparently, people recalled during the transition state are not considered fully dead. It is more like an out of body experience or a near death experience, so they don’t count as getting double jepordy.

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All Made Alive

A querist wrote:
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Does the word “all” in the first part of that verse mean something different from the word “all” in the second part? We know that all men DO die in Adam but we do not believe that ALL men will be made alive in Christ. We believe only some will be made alive. Can someone reconcile this for me, please. I know verse 23 says “they that are Christ’s at his coming.” So maybe that modifies all being made alive. But if that can be modified, then can’t the first part be modified too and all do NOT die in Adam?

James replies:
To be baptized is to be put into Christ (Rom 6:3, Gal 3:27). Those “in Christ” are Christians (Rom 8:1, 2). When Paul says that those in Christ will all be made alive, I take it to mean that all Christians are promised the resurrection of the dead, even if their bodies do not make it into a grave (Jn 5:28). Many Christians have been burned or eaten by wild beasts or lost at sea or in war and their bodies never came to a grave, but God will raise them anyway.

All people are not in Christ and do not have the promise to be made alive unless they are buried and stay buried. From what I read in Enoch and infer from such passages as Ezek 39, Zech 14 and others, I find that not every person will be raised. I think the evidence demands that some people will not be raised and will appear at the Judgment as ghosts. Everyone that is raised, whether they are a Christian or not, will be raised through Christ. Because Christ has the power of death, God can raise the dead through Christ.

The reader may at this point wonder why “all” means all in the first part of I Cor 15:22 but does not seem to mean “all” in the second part. To clear up this point, let us notice the actual text in I Cor 15:22. It says, “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive” (I Co 15:22).

Since everybody but Christ was in Adam, it is the universal experience of men to die (Heb 9:27). However, only the redeemed are in Christ, and all of these in Christ will be raised. The ones in the nations that are raised are not “in Christ” and they do not have a promise to be raised based on I Cor 15:22. The nations participate in the resurrection by being included in the promise of “all that are in the graves” (Jn 5:28). It is through Christ’s possession of the keys of Death and Hades that these people are raised, so the resurrection is through Christ, but these in the nations are not “in Christ”, and not everyone in the nations rises (Ezk 39:15).

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